Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

movies are cool. here is a place to talk about how cool they are. or maybe how much they suck, sometimes. like that fucking piece of shit 'mac and me'. worst fucking movie ever, a two-hour ad for fucking coca-cola.

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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby jjreason » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:11 pm

Are we hiding spoilers? I'll err on the side of caution.

I agree - the dramatic climax was like a train coming down the track - but that's part of human nature too - to sit there & watch a disaster happen even if you don't want to see it. Even Han knew what was going to happen, I'm convinced. I'd make the same bad choice & follow my son onto that bridge if he had gone to the dark side, knowing with certainty I wouldn't be coming back but doomed to try & fail just the same.

I was sucked right in & found it very emotional - so we're pretty far apart on that end of things.

And honestly - Mas Kanata's palace was fucking amazing. I can't wait to see that whole sequence again & again.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby anarky » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:17 pm

For the record, I'm still undecided on whether it's good or not. I know that sounds weird, but the good things were really, really good... it's just that whole pesky story thing that's not.

Kanata's palace was definitely one of the bright spots. That whole sequence was incredible. Though I would've liked to have seen a classic alien or two tossed in. Aside from the three existing Rebel characters, previously established aliens seemed completely absent. Which wouldn't seem weird when you're talking about an entire galaxy, but Rodians, Snivvians, Aqualish, Quarren, and a few others seem to be almost as common as humans in the other movies.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby jjreason » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:46 pm

Looked to me like a (whatever Hem Dazon's species is) head that popped out of the sand, but I'm not 100 percent sure it was. Right shape anyhow - and wasn't the one x-wing pilot a dug? Semed like the right face.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby anarky » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:51 pm

He's not a Dug, though I can only say that because the figure has a humanoid shape. I noticed the random Hem Dazon-looking head, too, and wasn't sure what was up with that. I figured it was a nonsentient species because an intelligent being in that spot at that time would've made no sense.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby mabudon » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:02 pm

oh and if I may propose, please keep this spoiler-freeish til we've all seen it- I have not managed to yet and am not sure when it'll happen- once we've all seen it, we can change the topic title yes??
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby anarky » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:25 pm

Sorry. I definitely want the lady-Bossk prostitute to be a surprise.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby anarky » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:42 am

The more I think on this and talk about it, the more I come to the conclusion that The Force Awakens is a very well-polished turd. Yes, it's shiny and looks pretty good on the surface, but then you realize it's just shit underneath.

I would like for someone to explain to me how the actions of every single OT character in the intervening 30 years aren't the actions of self-centered assholes. Abandoning their kids, leaving their wives, not pursuing their husbands, tagging along with deserting husbands even though you're their big furry conscience, shutting down and leaving your helpless golden buddy to fend for himself, leaving the galaxy to get blown up by Darth Plagueis.... I know they want us to focus on the new characters, but the old characters are unrecognizable in their assholery.

Except Ackbar, who apparently got severe brain damage and is completely hung up on penetrating shields because that's the only sentence he remembers. And C-3PO, who has never not been oblivious to everything.

Also, why the hell did Han Solo become such a colossally shitty smuggler? Lost the Falcon almost immediately and stiffs clients on a regular basis? The real Han is better than that.


(Okay, "turd" is probably way too strong a word. I'm not seeing the "better than the original" bullshit claims, though. I honestly am not sure it's better than 2/3 of the prequels.)
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby Tom Foolery » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:44 pm

mabudon wrote:oh and if I may propose, please keep this spoiler-freeish til we've all seen it- I have not managed to yet and am not sure when it'll happen- once we've all seen it, we can change the topic title yes??



I applaud your kind soul, sir. :uh-huh:

I'm watching the Box Office tally roll in though, and I'm giggling like a madman.
$120 million on Friday?? $57 mil on Thursday night?! Hahahaha!! That's crazy!!
And think about how dead the next couple months are as far as decent movies?
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby jjreason » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:45 pm

We can't process it with the brains we had as kids - there is no way it could ever beat or be the originals. Biologically impossible. Of course I have nits to pick - everyone would have done something different if they'd had the reins - but I've spent a lot more time rationalizing them to myself in the time honored "no prize" fashion than I have dwelling on them. The awesome parts were to me - by far - way, way, way too awesome to let any nits get in the way of me completely loving the movie.

To try & address Chux's points - I posted on FB that I saw Han & Leia's breakup as the natural progression of a fairly normal, modern-day relationship in which both people work a lot. You lose track of the kids a little bit & in some families they break bad. The way workaholics cope is to flee back to work, instead of into each others' arms... which in many cases leads to divorce. We don't even know for sure Han & Leia ever got married OR divorced for that matter - we infer all that from their interactions & the fact they produced at least one kid. Maybe they had a fiery on again off again affair that finally led to a baby? Maybe they got together, broke up, married other people & boned one time after a drunken Death Star anniversary party & little Ben was a surprise? They may never provide any further information - and we certainly don't have enough at this point to judge them as being selfish (at least by my gavel).

We have almost no information about what happened between Luke, Kylo, Snoke, Han & Leia. It's entirely possible Leia screamed at him to get the fuck out of there when Kylo went sideways and Luke didn't know how else to deal with it. There is a lot of story left here and I think it's way too early to judge him as selfish based on what we know. Maybe it was the only way to keep everyone safe, a la Yoda leaving to go into hiding at the end of ROTS.... I really want to know more about what happened!

Chewie was going with Han, regardless of what he thought of Han's decision. I'm sure he berated him when they left, but hell or high water he was going to follow Han. That doesn't speak badly of Chewie - that's the burden of his life debt. I was honestly more surprised than relieved he was flying the Falcon to rescue them - I was pretty much 100 percent sure Chewie was going to stay there by the last place he saw Han & murder troopers until one of the bastards got a lucky shot in or the place caved in around him. I was girding myself for them to cut to a funeral for both of them that would end up being the final shot of the movie - and was trying to figure out how the fuck I was going to avoid lying on the floor in the fetal position sucking my thumb for an hour in a theater after the lights had come back on. Thank God I didn't have to figure that one out.

R2-D2 felt hurt & betrayed that Luke left him there would be my guess. His loyalty was never to threepio - not ever. Threepio was a means to an end & that's about it. Whether or not R2 feels ANY affinity for him at all is anyone's guess. If I had to guess I'd suggest he doesn't. He would for Leia though, which speaks to me about the depth of his despair after being abandoned by Luke..... but I can't stretch it to suggest R2 is being selfish here by shutting down & waiting until enough information is at hand to get back in the game.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby vynsane » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:20 pm

^ pretty fairly sums up my feelings on all accounts.

my take on Luke splitting was that he was so distraught after failing to rebuild the Jedi Order that he went in search of the
First Jedi Temple in order to commune with The Force and figure out how to make it right.

as for R2, i don't think it was his call at all to be deactivated. 3P0 merely surmises this based on his best guess. i think Luke put the Jedi whammy on him to only reactivate when The Force deemed it time, via a confluence of happenings - something surrounding the convergence of Rey, Anakin's lightsaber, and the missing part of the map all in one place.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby jjreason » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:50 pm

"Confluence.... confluence you say? *Cough* *Cough* Truly wondrous, the vocabulary of this one called Vyn, is."
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby anarky » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:12 am

I posted a "holy fucking shit!" revelation on Facebook earlier.

Snoke's theme is the same music that's heard in ROTS when Palpatine talks about Darth Plagueis the Wise.

I'm not saying Snoke = Plagueis, though that's one possibility. I'm just saying there's a connection.

I'm thinking something enormous is going on that, when revealed, is going to completely change the other six movies. And I think TFA is intentionally structured to be a carbon copy of ANH, and thus seemingly predictable, because the real story is so subtly hinted at, we have no clue yet what it is.

Snoke--whatever the hell he is--is key, and not just as a big baddie.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby Diabolical » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:41 am

Time to post my thoughts.
I hate typing long posts on my phone and this is the first I've been on my PC in a few days.

I fucking loved this movie.
I was pretty sure I did after the first viewing, but it was so much to take in and absorb. My second viewing earlier today cemented it. I was able to relax a bit more and enjoy it and catch a few more things.
Sure, I have my nit picks, but like Jim said, the awesomness outweighed the small stuff.

I went in pretty spoiler-free, but many of my suspicions were true, like Luke having a small cameo and Han's death. Considering the well-known fact Harrison Ford wanted Han killed in Jedi, as soon as he signed on, I figured it was a one-picture deal.

The humor didn't bother me at all.

The callbacks didn't bother me either (12 parsecs, Finn finding the remote, etc.).

The only real superfluous scene was the one aboard Han's new freighter. Most if that could have been easily cut. The creatures looked like terrible, Men In Black style aliens. And the gangs were pointless.

Han: Sure, everyone changes somewhat over the years, but this was the vintage, snarky Han Solo we know and love. I didn't think his actions since Jedi were unbelievable at all. When couples lose a child it can often shatter the relationship.
As for Han being a shitty smuggler? I seem to recall him pissing off a Hutt once because of a botched job. In fact, that is the only smuggling job we heard any details about, so he never really had a glowing track record.

Rey and Finn: Great additions to the universe and probably some of the best acting we've had since Harrison Ford.
There is no way in Hell that Rey isn't a Skywalker. I think Luke dropped her off and somehow wiped her mind to keep her safe. She taps into the force pretty easily, much like a young human boy that could fly podracers. She is called to the lightsaber and seeing key points in Luke's life while hearing familiar voices. And the one that sealed it for me: When she gets the lightsaber and ignites it to face Kylo Ren - the Skywalker theme.

The Droids: BB8 was great. He has as much life and expressiveness as Artoo and Threepio. Threepio was underused, but it fit with the story they were telling. Artoo was one of my biggest disappointments. Why he was in his droid coma was so unclear - did Luke do it, or did he do it because Luke left? Either way makes no sense. I read a bit about how/why Artoo wakes up. According to Abrams, Artoo has had that info in his memory banks since the Death Star and it was BB8 that told him he had the missing piece. I guess Artoo heard him and woke up. None of this is even remotely clear in the flick, so take it for what it is.

Poe Dameron: Great character. Hopefully he gets a lot more screen time in Episode VIII. When he showed up at Maz's place my friend leaned over and said, "Um, did I miss something?"

Kylo Ren: A lot has been said about his power inconsistency. He has a lot of training ahead of him. He is, emotionally, very childlike. I think that he thinks he is really powerful and he is strong when he feels in control and people fear him. He clearly doesn't have control when his emotions get in the way. Every time he encounters resistance, he falters. His lightsaber skills leave a lot to be desired. Sure, he beats Finn, but so does a Stormtrooper. Rey gets the best of him the first time she uses one.

Phasma: I was surprised how little she was in it.

Snoke: Snoke is Plagueis was the one big spoiler I heard before the seeing the movie, and thankfully it turned out to be false (so far). I love everyone's WTF moment when we all thought he was 20 feet tall.

One thing that bugs me a little bit is the massive new EU setups all throughout.
The missing years detailing Han's 2 minute backstory about Luke, the Jedi, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren and Snoke. That felt like at least one missing movie, possibly a trilogy.
Poe's missing chunk of story.
Rey's early years - before Luke dropped her off on Jakku and after.
Han and Chewie's new smuggling adventures.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby Diabolical » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:16 am

Also, the shot from the second trailer with what everyone thought was someone handing Luke's lightsaber to Leia isn't in the movie.
Just something I realized earlier.
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Re: Still Spoiler Free! ( For the most part...)

Postby jjreason » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:47 am

There was some discussion about differences between the trailers & movie at the Canadian site as well. Someone posted that trailers are shot specifically to tease the movie & don't always have to be excerpts FROM the movie. I thought that was interesting, though I don't recall seeing many other trailers that contained so much that wasn't in the final cut. Maz is certainly having the hand to hand with Leia - the ring & robe sleeve make that apparent - but she is giving the saber to Leia, not receiving it for safe keeping or so it would appear. I can't even get my head around why such a shot would have been created, other than specifically for the trailer - maybe as a red herring?

And did I miss something, or was that snippet of conversation from the trailer that went "Who are you?" "No one" get removed? I don't recall hearing it at all, but I was completely visually overstimulated at Maz's palace & might have excluded it. Fuck me, that POV shot as they walked in was INCREDIBLE.


And yes RB, for sure - it opens up an absolute fucking NEED for folks to fill in a billion gaps in the story that my brain is just screaming to know about.
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